"boredalways" (boredalway666)
04/23/2020 at 20:35 • Filed to: Vaccine Testing, Covid-19, BBC News, Human trials, medicalopnik, Researchlopnik
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"boredalways" (boredalway666)
04/23/2020 at 20:35 • Filed to: Vaccine Testing, Covid-19, BBC News, Human trials, medicalopnik, Researchlopnik | 1
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Sure, it will be months out before results. What's impressive is how quickly someone was able to get started.
smobgirl
> boredalways
04/23/2020 at 20:40 |
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I don’t do needles, but this is enough to convince me.
Just Jeepin'
> boredalways
04/23/2020 at 20:45 |
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I almost feel too superstitious to say this, but today I realized that, for the first time in about two months, I’m actually fairly optimistic.
Two m onths ago it was obvious to anyone paying attention that we were going to be in trouble, but not many people were paying attention.
Now, finally, people are mostly on board. Sure, there are some loud and influential voices still pulling “facts” out of their ass, but we actually did shut down, we did start tackling the problem, and I feel like, if I continue to be paranoid, I won’t die. I like not dying.
So much pain is still ahead of us, and I worry that I’ll get complacent and then I’ll die, but if the world can avoid famine, and the governments of all levels can collectively not screw up too badly, there’s hope.
Unfortunately the famine part worries me a great deal, because r ich countries are very focused on their own problems right now. I hope this doesn’t lead to a new cycle of migrations and terrorism, because both are awful, and of course both will make the disease harder to contain.
But overall I’m starting to vaguely plan for the future again. A month ago I’d pretty much given up o n having one.
wafflesnfalafel
> smobgirl
04/23/2020 at 21:08 |
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as long as I don’t have to look at the needle I’m ok....
ranwhenparked
> Just Jeepin'
04/23/2020 at 21:15 |
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Famine and poverty are huge problems to worry about right now. But, i f we can somehow get firmly to the other side of the curve within the next month or so, and start opening back up, we might be able to get away with a deep recession instead of a depression. Just the last recession is said to have directly caused 10,000 excess suicides in this country, and our unemployment numbers are already at least 3x worse than they were in the depths of 2008/2009.
Svend
> boredalways
04/23/2020 at 21:31 |
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Even more so because they are mass producing it already so it’s ready to go once approved.
Not to mention the ventila tor consortium,
Britain opted out of the European bulk buy for ventilators siting low production and put it to U.K. manufacturers to make more, quicker.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52309294
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The first new medical ventilator to treat people with severe symptoms of Covid-19 has been approved in the UK.
Hundreds of the Penlon Prima ESO2, which is an updated version of an existing model, are expected to be built for hospitals over the next week.
But the consortium of major firms that helped to develop it hopes to make about 1,500 a week by the start of May.
The government has said it needs to increase ventilator stocks from 10,000 to 18,000 to cope with the pandemic.
But some have cast doubt on whether it can meet this goal fast enough.
On Thursday, following the approval by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), the government said it had confirmed an order for 15,000 of the new Penlon devices.
A Cabinet Office spokesman said the devices would be delivered over the coming months and it would continue to consider additional bids from other consortiums.
Cabinet Secretary Michael Gove said it showed “the significant progress being made” after big manufacturers were asked to help ramp up production.
Firms including Siemens, Airbus, Ford and a number of Formula 1 teams worked with Penlon, a medical device maker, to adapt its ventilator so that it could be mass-produced at speed.
Under normal circumstances, Penlon would only be able to make 50 to 60 ventilators a week.
In line with updated MHRA rules, the ESO2 can also be switched on and off more easily, allowing liquid to be regularly drained from patients’ lungs - something the sickest Covid-19 patients can require on an hourly basis.
Dick Elsy, chair of the VentilatorChallengeUK consortium which is making the device, said it had undergone “stringent testing and clinical trials for the last two weeks”.
“Ventilators of this type are complex and critical pieces of medical equipment, so ensuring the absolute adherence to regulatory standards and meeting clinical needs were always our priorities,” he said.
Airbus’ Broughton site, which makes wings for commercial aircraft, Ford’s Dagenham engine factory and McLaren’s Woking site are helping to produce the ESO2.
The consortium also said it was ramping up production of another existing design, the Smiths Group paraPAC, which is used for less acute patients.
A number of other businesses are also involved in designing new ventilators, including Dyson.
It is exactly a month since the government appealed to businesses across the UK for help manufacturing ventilators and components for the NHS.
Since then there has been some progress - production of an existing design, the Smiths Group paraPAC, is already being ramped up. And the Mercedes F1 team has been building a simpler breathing aid in large quantities.
But until today none of the much-hyped new designs had received official approval - and the government was facing criticism in some quarters for initially specifying machines that were allegedly ill-suited to the treatment of Covid-19 patients.
Now production of the Penlon-designed machine can begin in earnest, drawing on the combined know-how of companies such as Airbus, Ford and McLaren.
The government had been expected to buy about 5,000 of the machines. In fact, it’s ordered 15,000 - a measure perhaps of its relief that deliveries to the NHS can now start in earnest.
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Airbus has released a video showing how it has helped transform Broughton’s Advanced Manufacturing Research Centre (AMRC) into an assembly line to produce at least 15,000 ventilators for the NHS.
AMRC Cymru, which sits next door the Airbus site in Broughton has been rapidly transformed into assembly line to produce medical ventilators for the UK in the fight against COVID-19.
Airbus is part of the Ventilator Challenge UK consortium, which brings together some of the world’s most innovative industrial, technology and engineering businesses from across the aerospace, automotive and medical sectors.
Over 550 Airbus employees are working around the clock to produce thousands of ventilators for the National Health Service.
Following approval from the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), Welsh government-owned AMRC Cymru will help build up to 1,500 Penlon Prima ESO2 ventilators each week.
The device is a simplified version of an existing Penlon model and is the first new ventilator approved by the UK medical regulator in the fight against COVID-19.
Airbus is making about 50 percent of the parts of each finished ventilator at AMRC Cymru, assembling absorber units and flowmeters.
The finished parts then join up with ventilator units made by Ford in Dagenham and trolleys made by McLaren in Woking to make the finished unit. After final testing by Penlon in Abingdon, the ventilators are ready for supply to the NHS.
Governments around the world are trying to boost the number of available mechanical breathing devices that can supply air and oxygen, crucial for the care of people who suffer lung failure, which can be a complication of COVID-19.
Minister for Economy and North Wales Ken Skates said: “I’d like to thank Airbus for the amazing work it has done at the Welsh Government-funded AMRC Cymru to transform the site into a production line for ventilators.
“The way the workforce has adapted to the new production line is truly remarkable. I’d also like to recognise the flexibility of the team at AMRC to support this critical work, which will play such a vital role in the NHS here in Wales and further afield. There can be no doubt that the work taking place in Broughton will save lives.
PLUS
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PUBLISHED: 00:07, Fri, Apr 24, 2020 | UPDATED: 01:40, Fri, Apr 24, 2020
Medics have adapted a breathing aid device known as “black boxes” for use on patients seriously ill with the coronavirus. The “black boxes” were designed for use on people suffering from a sleep disorder called apnoea, a condition which can cause a person to stop breathing while asleep. Medical teams at the hospital told Sky News that by treating COVID-19 patients early with this breathing aid, there was less need to use the more intrusive and invasive ventilators , which require a pipe to be inserted down the throat
Dr Mark Forrest told Sky News: “Often we were seeing positive reaction within 15 minutes.”
And Dr Mithun Murthy believes that “black boxes” had already saved the lives of hundreds of patients.
He said: “We really believed it would work. It was a case of having it confirmed.”
Moreover, recovery rates have been much faster than has been the case with ventilators.
Clinicians said they realised that they faced an uphill struggle to cope with the expected influx of patients suffering from serious respiratory problems and requiring ventilation of their lungs.
The hospital had only 12 intensive therapy unit (ITU) ventilators, but were able to boost their numbers by re-servicing an additional five from an older generation, as well as recommissioning seven more from their critical care support and using their anaesthetic machines.
Despite the increase in capacity, medical teams knew that this would still leave them short and they would have to come up with alternative solutions.
Doctors were also aware that patients who had to be put on ventilators had a poor recovery rate.
In some cases a patient had only a 50-50 chance of recovering from the invasive treatment.
Their findings were in line with the experiences of other doctors treating seriously ill COVID-19 patients in other parts of the world.
Dr Mark Forrest said: “We watched very closely what was happening in other countries in particular Italy and learned from them.”
As a result the team made an early decision to use CPAP machines (continuous positive airway pressure) rather than ventilators.
The CPAP works by pumping oxygen under constant pressure into the lungs thorough a close-fitted face mask.
The breathing aid keeps the airways continuously open in those people who are still able to breathe on their own but stops the lungs from collapsing.
However, the hospital had only six of these devices to hand and decided they could not wait for the new CPAP devices being developed by Mercedes Formula 1 and University College London to come on line.
Dr Forrest told Sky News: “This seemed months away and we needed the machines now.”
It was at this point that the clinicians at Warrington Hospital had their “eureka moment”.
A team from the respiratory department led by Dr Mithun Murthy and consultant Saagar J Patel realised that they could turn their simple “black boxes” that they used to treat apnoea, into CPAP machines through a simple adaptation.
The “black boxes”, which are built on the same premise as a CPAP machine, were modified by fitting them with superior masks and linking them up to oxygen.
They were then tested on members of staff, before being used on patients suffering from COVID-19.
Staff in the ICU found that patients stabilised quickly and avoided the need for ventilation, if treated immediately with the modified “black boxes” on arrival in the intensive care ward.
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ranwhenparked
> smobgirl
04/23/2020 at 21:37 |
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I know what you mean. If only they could figure out a way to get it into a suppository
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smobgirl
> ranwhenparked
04/23/2020 at 21:40 |
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I mean I was thinking more like the Star Trek hyposprays but whatever floats your boat...
DipodomysDeserti
> boredalways
04/23/2020 at 21:59 |
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Months for results? Maybe for initial data. Not a chance in hell I’d receive a vaccine that was only tested for months. Even one tested for a year is super sketchy.
Btw, first vaccine began testing over a month ago in Washington.
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DipodomysDeserti
> Svend
04/23/2020 at 22:02 |
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You have a link for the info that they’ve already started mass producing and untested vaccine. That would concern me greatly.
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boredalways
> Svend
04/23/2020 at 22:03 |
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Funny how progress is achieved when your government isn’t run by a bunch of incompetent, s elf-serving fuckwits
Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Svend
04/23/2020 at 22:14 |
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President Trump is the king of ventilators.
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Just Jeepin'
04/23/2020 at 22:16 |
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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/23/pandemic-altitude-harris-203228
I differentiate between pessimistic and realistic.
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> ranwhenparked
04/23/2020 at 22:20 |
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I differentiate between pessimistic and realistic. I think this story is realistic. So on the realistic side, we’re screwed. On the bright side, maybe it’ll only be for a few years. I predict that retail brick and mortar will be history, and how many are employed in that sector? Cafes and restaurants will need some very long tables if we’re all to sit six feet apart. Then once this settle in, the nefarious actors will start attacking the internet. We have a president who lives to be hated, and his strategy in that regard seems to be working quite well. In short, we’re screwed.
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boredalways
> DipodomysDeserti
04/23/2020 at 22:31 |
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While I trust the NIH will do it’s best, we have way too much political interference drowning out the science here in the U.S.:
Medical experts denounce Trump’s latest ‘dangerous’ suggestion to treat Covid-19
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ranwhenparked
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
04/23/2020 at 22:33 |
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Just start listing the industries that are dead - theme parks, conventions/conferences, hotels, casinos, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, concert venues/performing arts centers, really all live music, movie theaters, museums, (non grocery/pharmacy) retail stores, airlines, really the entire travel sector, probably a hell of a lot more. We have a service-based economy, and nearly every sector of the service industry is decimated.
If stuff reopens, a large portion of the population will try to go back to normal and start patronizing them again, but a lot of people are also going to continue to stay away for personal safety. Also, there won’t be that many businesses still in existence to reopen once they’re allowed to. The big chains that have emergency funds and large credit facilities will, but mom and pop independent places certainly won’t. Hope everybody enjoys eating at Applebees and McDonalds, because those are going to be our options.
Hell, even the medical industry is suffering - a lot of doctors and nurses are actually being laid off right now. Why? Because hospitals get most of their income from “elective” procedures, which are banned right now, so they’re hemorrhaging cash. And elective doesn’t just mean stuff like boob jobs, it means anything that isn’t immediately life threatening. Someone getting a limb transplant, or a Nuss procedure to improve lung capacity would technically be elective, a lot of it is actually really important.
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DipodomysDeserti
> boredalways
04/23/2020 at 22:52 |
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That study isn’t being carried out by the NIH, it’s being carried out by Kaiser Parmenente.
Our medical personnel, unlike the UK, aren’t mostly government employees, and have a bit more freedom to call out moron politicians.
I can tell you first hand that the scientific research community is sticking together (at least in my AO) and helping each other get around federal bs.
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Svend
> DipodomysDeserti
04/23/2020 at 22:52 |
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They are mass producing it so it’s ready should the tests be positive.
If the tests fail, it’ll be destroyed.
It takes time to make vaccines en-mass. To wait for a positive result would add time people can’t wait.
To clarify, the vaccine being produced will only get used pending a positive result to tests.
((other than the headline, my emphassis is in bold))
British scientists have said they hope to have one million doses of a coronavirus vaccine ready to be deployed by September.
The team at Oxford University will start the first UK study of an experimental vaccine against COVID-19 next week.
But so great is the need, and so high their confidence that it will work, that they will start large-scale production before the trials are even complete .
Professor Adrian Hill, director of Oxford University’s Jenner Institute, said the world could not afford to wait for vaccines to be proven to be safe and effective in trials that would involve months of delay before production starts.
He told Sky News: “While those trials are going on we have to start manufacturing, manufacturing at risk because if the vaccine fails nobody will want the doses .
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“But the hope is to have about a million doses by September ready for deployment.
“It’s a big ask, but not impossible.”
The Oxford team say there is an 80% chance of success. If trials are positive hundreds of millions of doses could be ready by the end of the year .
The vaccine, called ChAdOx1 nCoV-19, is made from a harmless chimpanzee virus that has been genetically engineered to carry part of the coronavirus . The technique has already been shown to generate strong immune responses in other diseases.
Deals have already been done with three UK manufacturers, and several more abroad, to make the vaccine.
The scientists have been awarded £2.2m to fund clinical trials by the government’s new vaccine taskforce, which aims to speed up their development and manufacture.
A separate team at Imperial College London has also been backed by government money.
But no deal has been done by Whitehall to secure supply of any vaccine doses.
In answer to a question by Sky News at the daily virtual government news briefing, Sir Patrick Vallance, the UK’s chief scientific adviser, said: “Just to put some realism on vaccine development, each single project does not have a high probability of success.
“So although everybody goes out with high enthusiasm and we hope they work it’s never the case that you know you have a vaccine that is going to work.
“The vaccine could come from anywhere - most of the big (pharmaceutical) companies are doing vaccines.
“We need to back lots of horses so we are in the position to access a vaccine when it occurs.”
More than 70 experimental vaccines are in development around the world.
Two in the United States and one in China have already begun safety studie s.
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This is merely to remove the time from a positive result to a roll out of the vaccine.
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Svend
> boredalways
04/23/2020 at 23:05 |
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Oh no, we still have some of them. One idiot even said in an interview, that we weren’t going with the European bulk but of v entilators because of Brexit, he had to backtrack and clarify that the U.K. government didn’t feel the machines would all be ready in time with the manufacturers being small companies, even Penlon said they could only make 50-60 machines a week.
So the U.K. government rolled out a challenge to get these machines built faster. It was up to the companies t o either make current ones at a faster rate, streamline the pr oc ess, cut down on unnecessary bi ts, etc... but still had to pass test requirements of the machines. Some have already dropped out after their devices failed tests.
India recently got an order of ventilators from China and found them all to be faulty.
As well as complaints from other countries.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/business/china-mask-exports-coronavirus.html
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Svend
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
04/23/2020 at 23:07 |
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Passing hot air out of his mouth doesn’t make him a ventilator, never mind a king of.
If anything, he’s an oxygen thief.
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DipodomysDeserti
> Svend
04/23/2020 at 23:17 |
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From the article:
“ The Oxford team say there is an 80% chance of success.”
Very concerning mindset to have when conducting a scientific study, especially when the capital for production is already being put up. This is how people screw up.
Our response to this is reminding me of 9/11. Very poor way to conduct foreign and domestic policy. A deadly way to conduct medical research.
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Svend
> DipodomysDeserti
04/23/2020 at 23:34 |
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1, Very concerning mindset to have when conducting a scientific study , especially when the capital for production is already being put up. 2, This is how people screw up .
1, not at all concerning mindset, it’s being practical and honest.
There is no point saying 100%. They are 80% optimistic based on the results done in the lab but actual physical human testing has variables that can’t be quantified, hence the testing.
2, no, this is how people don’t screw up, they test it and make it as safe as they can in a lab and them for human testing, then they learn from it and adapt.
I can’t comment on the U.S. way of doing it other than what is being reported and every country is trying to do it’s best for it’s own citizens, though some do seem to be trying to pass the buck.
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DipodomysDeserti
> Svend
04/23/2020 at 23:59 |
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1. The whole reason you test something is because you don’t know what it’ll do. Going into a medical research project saying “there’s an 80% chance this will do what I want it to” is not how scientific research is done. You may think it, but to have enough hubris to say it is telling. It’s very dangerous as you’re assuming your hypothesis is correct. This is exactly how people screw up. Researchers are not infallible.
2. Many of the safety checks have currently been removed for medical research, so we’re already cutting corners because we’re panicking. You shouldn’t be beta testing a vaccine on the public. That’s not how medical research works. See thalidomide as a good example of this. Knock on effects of health related mistakes can have long lasting effects.
3. The US is doing the same thing and it is equally concerning. We started phase I trials on humans a month ago. Our pharma companies have a lot more freedom (and money) to do what they want than public institutions. The research community is very much international and not nationalistic. I just attended my algal biosystems final review lecture in Arizona, and was one of only a few Americans in the lecture (not a lot of grad students taking algal biosystems).
Salmon algae for your time
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> ranwhenparked
04/24/2020 at 00:29 |
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And all of that service in
dustry stuff is all discretionary income. And nobody's going to have any of that if they still have jobs.
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> ranwhenparked
04/24/2020 at 00:36 |
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Add gyms to your list...
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> boredalways
04/26/2020 at 20:40 |
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Hey: email me so I can mail you a F@h team sticker. oliphant.chuckerbutty@gmail.com